With so much in the head now it feels so difficult to write… I have thoughts, emotions, details to tell about, but also that imminent need to cut it short straight to the core. Nah… I’ll make it short:
We had one really full day today. Julia wanted to visit a guy (her guitar teacher) who now lives out of the city at what we call “dacha”. He’s just yet another beautiful human being, but he also has a rare, supposedly incurable disease (Behterev), so he’s struggling and Julia basically wanted to help him with some information she came across. Anyway… the whole point is that something happened there…
Matty and Mumunia
While Julia was talking with Kostia (the guy) Matthew and I were wandering around, entertaining ourselves. We found two calves (young cows), who were just resting on the grass. Matthew went on to cuddle one immediately and the little creature was literally HAPPY about the company. Just look at this:
Matthew gave him a name – Mumunia. He presented him a flower and tried to feed (but later reasoned that Mumunia can find food by himself). They were playing, gently and even passionately, like two friends. The calf was crying when we left, he was calling for Matty to return.
Later that day Julia asked Matt a question… “would you want to eat Mumunia?“. He said “No.“. Just hold your breath for a moment, and listen… it’s “no”.
This, and, quite coincidentally (or not so), the “Earthlings” film that we just watched led me to a few points:
1. We lie to our kids.
2.
We lie to ourselves. Who, in their sane mind can grab a live duckling and bite out it’s head? Not you, right? Now how about a juicy apple? Feels better, huh? And what about a smoked turkey…. ? We have right answers in our hearts from the very beginning, from birth, but we’ve grown to close our eyes, consciously and lie to ourselves, just to keep things easy. Dumplings are dead animals. Hot-dogs are killed calves. Shoes are animal flesh. Apples are apples. But we know it, right? We just choose not to think about it. We have our lines of defense, sophisticated and comforting… “we were meant to eat it”, “don’t tell me or you’d spoil my dinner”, “fish has no brains”, “but apples feel pain too, right?” or the worst of all “but my body needs ….”. One can tell me about research, science, books, experiments, but I’ve seen the truth today – it’s all in your heart, until you cover it, until you wrap your sin into a fancy foil, until you loose the connection. Matty said “No”. And it was the first time when we didn’t lie to him, when asking this question.
3. We are not pests, virus, aliens or “mistakes”. It’s time to stop this bullshit already. It’s when you know you’re doing something wrong (and don’t want to stop) you call yourself a “bad guy” and keep rolling. But it’s life, it’s our home – we have to take the responsibility. Humankind is a natural and integral part of planet Earth, and all the wrongs that we do are mistakes we should fix.
p.s. Julia and I are vegetarians for a few years now. We know people who’ve been vegetarian or vegan for many years. We know people who are veg from birth. They are healthy, happy and strong. The only reason why people eat animals is because they like how it tastes. The only reason why they think it tastes good is because they are forced to get used to it, by marketing, ads, misinformation, friends, and first of all – parents. Meat/fish/poultry/seafood/any-animal-protein is not tasty for men, we have to roast, boil, add spices, salt, lemon, mix it with something, etc – we go to great length to even be able to consume it. It starts from killing. Then we lie.
nice post and great insight. i for one enjoy meat, deer, squirrel, rabbit, beef, pork, turkey, fish, shrimp, most anything that walks, crawls or flies.
the mere smell of vegetables turns my stomach. existence on this planet comes from surviving. if you can survive eating vegetables strictly, that is what works for you. i would never say that its wrong to eat vegetables, because i don’t believe that it is, on the same hand, i do not believe that its wrong or immoral to eat meat of any sort, except for human meat, and that is deemed as cannibalism.
good luck with that and God Speed in all your choices in life.
Regards,
DosDawg
“The only reason why they think it tastes good is because they are forced to get used to it, by marketing, ads, misinformation, friends, and first of all – parents.”
Its true Andrew, in childhood we eat whatever provided by parents, but later we choose friends, business, skill, partner, wife and so many things according to our choice. We can consciously choose what to eat.
Cow is a love symbol for 1000s of years, i can see that in these photos. Thanks for the blog, you made my day.
Lots of Love.
humm that’s pretty nice and all, your kid having fun with animals and hanging outside, that’s cool…
but regarding the other comments, hummm i don’t know, you are kinda mixing a lot of different things into one big ball and they although connected aren’t the same thing… i’ll comment per point to keep it simple:
1. lying and giving them meat is not the same thing, you should teach him all the nice things and avoid lying because that would probably help him be a better person and make better and more informed choices later in life, now about eating meat, we eat it because we can, although its not the only source of nutrients, you cant go around asking other animals to avoid eating each other, we are alive and prospered as a species BECAUSE we hunt, breed and eat animals, degrading or putting down our own history is not something nice (sure nowadays we have other sources of food and we can choose, this was not always the case), i understand you sentiment but its misplaced, what you can do (like with religion, sex… or anything really with a young child), is give your boy a choice, give him meat, give him vegetables, give him honey, teach him what they are (he will love where the honey comes from), unbiased and when he is older he can decide for himself what he wants… and he will do so consciously ^_^
2. Hum? just cause you are not used to eating meat and have a romantic notion of animals, doesn’t mean you are right, just spend a week out in the woods with no food and a live rabbit, i’m sure you will do the right thing, my best food ever was roasted chicken my grandmother used to make and she killed her own chicken and planted the potatoes and everything, just remembering it makes my heart happy, so as you can see i have the same romantic attachment to my food, sure countless chickens were killed by my grandmother, and yes cause i’m a human i do feel for them, but i also feel for the trees and all living things, and we also interfere with plants and we also kill thousands of them for our meals, you think just cause a animal has a brain and he is cute that he is better than a plant? its nature, something must die for us to live, i respect and appreciate their existence, and i would prefer otherwise, but i’m not going to be a hypocrite about it…
3. Well yeah humans are kinda bothersome, just our existence takes a toll wherever we may be, and yes of course we should clean up our act, but just cause we abuse our position of privilege, doesn’t make us bad, i believe it to be a regular learning process (just like the industrial revolution polluted Britain till it turned pitch black and later on we found the impact of it on people and nature and decided to change our ways), sooner or later we will find better ways to eat and to live and to take care of the planet, its just not as simple as turning vegetarian, especially for the wrong reasons.
ps i was a 100% vegetarian for a number of years, and it was great (especially because you have to be extra creative with the food), but i did it because i wanted to try it for a while, not for any religious, social, fashion, philosophical reasons.
Okay but it is natural for humans to eat meat. It is all part of the food chain. It’s just the way of life. Humans are not the only creatures that kill for their dinner.
Yes, I agree. We teach our children to forget what they already know at birth by renaming things and denying the underlying conceptual relationships. (i.e. “Don’t be mean to the kitten, Johnny, that’s not nice; now come eat your hamburger.”) We re-label the concepts of right and wrong, and we situationally redefine them to suit our own lifestyles, until the children forget the original concepts completely…then we wonder why, when they get to be teenagers and find themselves in new situations, they behave unpredictably and don’t really seem to know the “right” thing to do. Childhood should be as simple as possible when it comes to right and wrong… There’s no such thing as situational ethics at the age of 2 or 3.
Great post! I’m not a vegetarian, but the older I get, the less and less I can fool myself with the seasonings because you’re right, meat doesn’t taste good without something added, even if it’s just salt… You’ve given me a reason to pause and reconsider my own values… If only for my grandchildren, perhaps…
It realy disgusts me knowing that all these animals are being killed everyday.
I consider animals to be another human with a different body figure who live in different natures of life.
Sauceges, hot dogs, burgars etc. come from animals being killed…would it be possible we could live without this stuff?
Do we realy need to kill these animals???
Those are some realy nice images above.
When you’re face to face with animals you truly do fall in love with them and at times you don’t want to leave them.
@dosdawg
Good call. I am not implying that eating meat, per se, is bad. i have no idea. I would not try to put my preferences as a basis for everyone’s choices.
In this post I basically share mere observations that lead me to what I feel is a logical conclusion. If not for what I was forced to believe in, if not for packaging, pre-processing, etc… what would I eat, and what I wouldn’t? What is truth and what is a made-up truth?
Kids, little kids, put things into their mouths, instinctively, they try things. They wouldn’t chew/swallow fish, meat, birds… but they would chew/swallow a peach.
We trick them into an addiction.
@Pankaj Arora
yes, when we grow up we choose consciously, but the addiction and ignorance prevent us from even considering a change.
@hugo
1. Exactly. But how many people offer choices? 9 out of 10 kids would only find out that meat is a dead animal when they are, say 7-10y/o. We don’t give them all the information when offering choices. Kids know that apples grow on trees, that milk is from a cow, they may even know that hod-dogs are from cows… but they don’t know the cow was cut into pieces, then minced… We always say “he’s to young to know”. Right… not ready yet. Could also be the same with drugs or human meat.
We eat meat because we can? I can eat you, technically. I just prefer not to.
2. If I were in the wood, hungry, I’d eat the rabbit. I’d eat you too. See the point? Do what you have to. I just want you to see the difference between “have to” and “want to”.
3. Agree. I strongly believe that humankind, en masse, is kind, beautiful and strong. We’ll find the way, eventually, but we need to work on it.
re:ps.
Good for you. Some people never even consider it. We made this choice for no specific reason either, it just felt right. Believe comes later.
@Corey
And that you know how?
@Suzianne
Thank you.
You’re right about the teenagers. Just like we call it a “hamburger” they call it “ice” or “speed” or “ecstasy”. They don’t say “mind-killing narcotics” or “brain-damaging chemicals”. We reap what we sow.
@Jason
I actualy showed my daughter of 7 yesterday how hot dogs are made on you tube (type in how hot dogs are made). I also showed her videos on “animal slaughter house torture”, on you tube. No doubt she has chosen to stop eating meat on her own after crying for an hour, but it is the facts and she deserves to make an educated choice on what she eats. Kids are much more intune with love and animals than adults.
No we are not made to eat meat. Our teeth can chew it because it is cooked. If you look up “the gerson theory” on youtube.com or watch the movie on netflex.com you can also see how eating animal products produces most of the diseases we have today. Heart disease, cancer, and many more. If you watch the videos on youtube.com and educate your self you will realize what you are really eating and how bad the animals are TORTURED before death also. It is not as is use to be where you cut a happy chickens throat and you are of to dinner. They live horrible lives waiting for there torturous death, cows too.
Most of us think Ioh my God how can I live without a steak. I will be the first to admit that. Then I tried it and realized it made me eat alot healthier. You find when you get your protien from beans nuts and veggies you are much more satisfied, don’t crave meat and have much more energy (and lose weight). For those of you who are afraid there would be nothing left to eat……..trust me I eat alot and I am not stuck with boring salads. You just have to take the first step. I still eat that occassional spare rib or a take a big chug of milk once in awhile but funny I just did and litterally threw up because it was sour and then sat down and read your ad……..tooooooo fuuuunnnnny (others in the house still buy the milk so that’s how it got there). Oh………and P.S. milk actually helps feed cancer cells and is known to speed up the spreading of cancer……….
I think we are coming into a new age of awareness in america and I actually think it’s great we have http://www.youtube.com to help educate people on where food comes from. I learn something knew everyday from it.
Great posting and cute kid!!!!!!!!!!
That’s a very nice article to make a person think … but I think there’s also a measure of accuracy that’s missing or been ignored. I can tell you for example that my wife was a vegetarian when we met (we’re together for more than 13 years now), had been a vegetarian for many years … but began eating meat again within a few years after we met, simply because she missed the taste. But as far as taste goes, I don’t really believe that it’s just the meat taste itself that makes people eat meat .. or the psychological brainwasching when we were children. Here in Germany, even animals that are bred for consumption are treated very humanely. You wouldn’t believe how well these animals are treated unless you saw it with your own eyes, because the value of life and quality thereof is very important to the german people and everyone knows that if you don’t eat that roast in the grocery market … the next person will. So going “meatless” doesn’t realy change anything anywhere, except for yourself (We’re Americans ourselves and I could tell you some horror stories about cattle breeding in the USA).
When my wife and I were together, at first I often tried tofu specialities that she’d perfected over the years. But I gotta tell ‘ya, that tofu never even came close as far as a meat replacement is concerned. And for me, as someone with my roots in Germany, there’s far more involved than the sheer taste of meat. It’s also the crinkling crunchiness of the sausage on the grill, the slightly blackened BBQ taste that I could never duplicate on any tofu product, the taste of ground round stuffing with onions, garlic, mushrooms and seasonings in a christmas turkey, the taste of roast pork, beef, or wild boar roast with steaming red cabbage – ooodles of mushroom gravy – and mashed potatoes … combining that particular meal into a “heavenly delight” that tofu could never hope to accomplish. (Believe me, my wife knows how to cook and tried for years to make perfect tofu recipes).
Aside from that, yes, I’ll grant your claim that you can stay healthy and fit as a fiddle with veggies and fruits (love those myself). But whether you like to agree to this or not, research has proven time and time again over many years in different countries that there are indeed animal “things” in meat that promote health in human beings, these being things that can only be found in the meats of some mammals. Supposedly when people reach the age of 70+ some of these things are supposed to be even more important (cow or goat milk against osteoporosis, and not just the calcium value either).
No, of course I’m not trying to convince you that “meat is great” or that anyone who won’t eat meat is a fool. As a matter of fact, my wife and I will never vacation in Spain because we loathe animal cruelty and we’ve been adopting abused and mistreated dogs from Spain for numerous years. But there are two sides or opinions to everything, and to say that people eat meat strictly and only because they’ve been indoctrinated to do so doesn’t quite ring true to me. There’s more to it than that and I personally could not magine life without the scrumptiouness of meat recipes that I’ve gotten accustomed to over the years. My wife started eating meat again several years ago (absolutely NOT due to prompting on my part) and she has no regrets about it either.
Far more important to us, are issues about how our governments treat people as individuals and families since really bad decisions can have a really bad impact on hundreds of thousands, perhaps even millions of lives (George Bush in the USA). Far more important to us, are issues about preserving the family as a unit which appears to be something else that’s getting less and less important in many countries as time goes on. And then of course, there’s that issue of more than 30.000 (not a typo) children that die each and every single day (not a typo) worldwide … innocent children that are born to this world for the sake of … dying again, due to disease, famine, poverty, mistreatment, murder, etc. etc. etc. I guess what I’m getting at is that it’s really awesome of you to think about issues such as preserving life by not eating any meat products, but then there are plenty of other issues that are just as and far more important. None of us have the power to change any major or horrific issues as individuals, generally not even in groups unless you’re part of a gigantic group such as greenpeace or the WWF. Consequently, especially for parents with children, life ends up being a constant give & take, an evaluation of circumstances, and so on. Your article here won’t change anything, but hopefully it’ll get more people to think a little harder about some important life issues, regardless what these issues may be … and that in turn could make such a person just a little bit better of a human being or a better parent or perhaps even both …
Have an incredible week.
Greetings from Germany
@meinecommunity
Thank you for a great comment. I am happy to see this discussion going.
You might be right about more important issues… It’s definitely impossible to decide which issues are more important though. Some things just seem to be more pressing. Anyway, we have to think about little things either, until they grow.
I am so happy to know you people better. At the place where I was born even considering vegetarianism is deemed unthinkable. I am happy to see people from around the world sharing experience if really trying things out, and making their own judgements. I can live with people that eat meat. I only can’t stand people who don’t care.
About the “watch this” Video on YouTube …
The internet is an open gateway, accessible to anyone and everyone … including children. I daresay that if a sensitive child, in some cases even an adult, viewed that video, he or she could quite seriously be traumatized for a long time to come. To me, as a parent, posting such a videoclip is irresponsible and just because it happens to appear on a public portal such as YouTube … doesn’t make it any more excuseable since this page is YOUR page and since your page can be found by children as well. Where is the difference between the effect of such a clip and the effect of advertising? All of it is “brainwashing” of sorts, none of it is healthy or responsible living. The barbarians shouldn’t do what they’re doing, but to intentionally seek out the worst of the worst, followed by displaying such barbarism is more civilized ??? Hmmmm ….
Here’s something for you to think about.
We’re huge fans of sci-fi, fantasy and horror movies because it fascinates us how people utilize mechanics, animation, computers, colors, synthetics, etc. to create effects that are truly mind boggling and realistic. I’m also a huge Stephen King fan and our now 14 year old has been named after Stephen King. But you know what? The better a movie or a book is, the more it makes people like myself and my wife wonder just how (if) screwed up a human brain has to be, in order to think of such madness in the first place? So in regards to that videoclip, what type of a person or parent would you consider yourself to be … knowing that you’ve provided access to something as horrific as that clip, something that children might actually be able to view?
No, I did not watch the clip itself, just a bit of it as I backed out. I did read all of the comments to it and knew that if I watched it … it would make me think all day long about the tortured and mistreated dogs that we save … and that would have ruined my day completely. Nothing wrong with some “impact reinforcement” but animal cruelty in its rawest most degrading and horrific form is not a step in the right direction, at least not on the internet with children in attendance everywhere.
FIY:
Are human beings anatomically more similar to natural carnivores or to natural herbivores? Let’s find out….
“Intestinal tract length. Carnivorous animals have intestinal tracts that are 3-6x their body length, while herbivores have intestinal tracts 10-12x their body length. Human beings have the same intestinal tract ratio as herbivores.
Stomach acidity. Carnivores’ stomachs are 20x more acidic than the stomachs of herbivores. Human stomach acidity matches that of herbivores.
Saliva. The saliva of carnivores is acidic. The saliva of herbivores is alkaline, which helps pre-digest plant foods. Human saliva is alkaline.
Shape of intestines. Carnivore bowels are smooth, shaped like a pipe, so meat passes through quickly — they don’t have bumps or pockets. Herbivore bowels are bumpy and pouch-like with lots of pockets, like a windy mountain road, so plant foods pass through slowly for optimal nutrient absorption. Human bowels have the same characteristics as those of herbivores.
Fiber. Carnivores don’t require fiber to help move food through their short and smooth digestive tracts. Herbivores require dietary fiber to move food through their long and bumpy digestive tracts, to prevent the bowels from becoming clogged with rotting food. Humans have the same requirement as herbivores.
Cholesterol. Cholesterol is not a problem for a carnivore’s digestive system. A carnivore such as a cat can handle a high-cholesterol diet without negative health consequences. A human cannot. Humans have zero dietary need for cholesterol because our bodies manufacture all we need. Cholesterol is only found in animal foods, never in plant foods. A plant-based diet is by definition cholesterol-free.
Claws and teeth. Carnivores have claws, sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, and no flat molars for chewing. Herbivores have no claws or sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, but they have flat molars for chewing. Humans have the same characteristics as herbivores.”
@meinecommunity
We’re at the fine line now, but I did think before doing that.
The very idea of the article is that I now think that giving such information actually makes me a responsible parent.
Look, I didn’t show this on a Baby-Tv, didn’t present it to kids in a “Mickey Mouse” cd-box. It’s there, available. There’s a warning about viewers discretion.
When we feed a child a hamburger we do the same, except for hiding-out the bad-looking part. Right, they’ll find it out at a later stage, but unfortunately we carry over that “…that would have ruined my day completely” to them too. Promoting ignorance.
Now I have no problem exposing my child to such cruel things as squashed apples and leafy-greens cut into pieces. I enjoy him tearing salad into the bowl with his bare hands. He enjoys picking berries and eating them “alive” straight from the bush.
So, why are you so concerned about showing the story of their “food” to your little ones? You protect them from what? Seeing their food prepared? Or maybe, just maybe, you’re not sure they’d approve your judgements, yet?
Or maybe, just maybe, you’re not sure they’d approve your judgements, yet?
.
.
Well, in all honesty I could really (almost) care less whether or not our child “approves” of my judgement since it is my responsibility as a parent to do a job that he couldn’t possible understand. Heck, I know kids that are legally adults who don’t know the next thing about parenting and the involved responsibilities thereof, so again, I really don’t look for approval. On the other hand, I do know that I must be doing something right when our Son constantly tells me stuff like … You’re the greatest … Other kids in School wish they had a Dad like you … I love you so much … and so on. That’s my approval, my proof that even if something isn’t understood, expected, or even desired (punishment), there’s a huge level of trust, consideration, and love. That’s off-track from your last answer though.
I believe that as a parent it’s also our job to shelter our children from certain things that can’t possible be healthy for a child’s brain if the brain isn’t capable of dealing with the entire baggage of what’s being viewed/explained. I would no more show a 5 year old how a car runs over a salamander thereby squishing a living being into nothingess (not even cruelty involved here), as I would not show an 11 year old the movie, Holocaust. That’s just part of parenting, knowing what’s okay and knowing what’s not okay to show. Two things that I always consider for such decisions are … A. Is the (my) child ready to handle all that the eyes see, without some type of damage ocurring, temporary or otherwise, and … B. Even if I think that I can explain any questions appropriately, will those explanations *REALLY* be good enough for the child as opposed to my HOPING that the explanations to really tough questions (such as graphic animal cruelty) are good enough?
Consider this …
ADULTS are traumatized, often for years and sometimes even for the remainder of their lives, by traumatic *VISUAL* events that took place during natural disasters, times of war, terrorist attacks, etc. So why on earth would I *ASSUME* that my yet to fully develop child is capable of handling grotesque visual acts of animal cruelty? There’s no possible way on earth that I can accurately tell or even guess the amount of visual insanity that is “acceptable” to the fragile brain of an (any) undeveloped child. So what do I do as a responsible parent? I do what I consider to be prudent, smart, and responsible … by making decisions about the extent that a (my) child should be sheltered from certain events or visual cruelty. After all, we’re not living in the dark ages or the stone age anymore where such considerations weren’t so important.
I completely disagree with the analogy of the salad because the salad looks far more innocent than something with legs, arms, and/or a head and I’d imagine that just about any childs brain can handle “chopping up lettuce” without as much as an explanation as to why that’s taking place. Further, I’d be willing to bet that most smaller children, regardless if their parents eat meat or not, would not be able to handle me or anyone else standing next to them while chopping up a freshly killed pig or turkey for a dinner, gutting, cleaning, chopping, skinning … least not without some kind of an explanation.
Part of it also has to do with civility. Granted, we, the human race, are often more like mindless animals … killing, butchering, destroying, feeding, etc. BUT, as time evolves, most of the intelligent ones from our species are also supposed to learn more about peace, love, compassion, sensitivity, and other “peaceful” things … which I would clearly NOT be promoting adequately (least not in my opinion) if I start letting my brothers 8 year old daughter watch animal slaughter and cruelty sessions on YouTube. Be that as it may though, each of us has to make their own decisions about their kids. I just know that I’m deathly afraid of doing something to screw up my kids mind (I came from a severely abusive environment) in some way, so consequently I’m very careful about what he’s allowed to be exposed to. Heck, he’ll be exposed to all of the filth, scum, cruelty, meanness, etc. soon enough. No reason for me to hurry that process along any faster than needs be ….
Alright, I’m outta here. Enjoy your week.
Greetings from Germany.
“I’d be willing to bet that most smaller children, regardless if their parents eat meat or not, would not be able to handle me or anyone else standing next to them while chopping up a freshly killed pig or turkey for a dinner, gutting, cleaning, chopping, skinning … least not without some kind of an explanation.”
They would stand it if you didn’t teach them about what life is, and how nice animals are. Chop a duckling in front of a 6 mo. old infant and he’d just consume the information. No sweat. Do it again a week later, and a year later. He’ll be fine. Just don’t confuse him with “here’s a little duckling, cuddle it, look at how funny he is, etc. Don’t put a teddy-bear to his bed and there won’t be any confusion. We are not born with sympathy to squashed salamanders. We grow to feel it.
To be honest, I am afraid too. I have no idea if I am right or wrong and I am terrified that there’s a chance I can harm my child somehow. I am equally terrified when I don’t do anything.
Thank you for expressing your views and best wishes to you and your kids. Be happy.
Well this is controversial…i am not a dedicated meat eater…..in fact i prefer veg. But i find that i am very much compassionate towards animals. But there is something i wonder….its about milk and how we get it. The new born calves are first suckled and in the half way….sorry…not even half seconds actually…they are pulled apart from their mothers and while they shout their guts out …the rest of the milk is collected for “our precious ones”. Finally, the calf is left back for a drink or two.
I fail to understand whether milk is veg or non
veg. What category does this fall into? Should we switch to soy milk? I think “cruelty” should be minded and not our “eating habits” while treating animals.
Anyways, the pictures are really cute and may God bless your family
Regards,
Gargi Dutta.
Parents who have kids who are complaining what sites there children are going to, HOLD ON A SECOND !!!!!!!!
Its time to watch your children take your time see what they are doing on the internet.
REPEAT AFTER ME !!
“WATCH YOUR CHILDREN MORE”,
BE AWARE OF WHAT THEY’RE DOING ON THE INTERNET,
PUT A BLOCKER ON YOUR ROUTER FOR THE SITES YOU DONT WANT YOUR CHILDREN ON!!!
If your kids get on your computer and get on a site you don’t like, the site isn’t to blame…THE PARENT IS!!!
There are so many ways to protect your children on the Internet now adays, its the parents ignorance and to this is why children go where they can!
@Andrew Boon
1. Doesn’t change what i said, just because other people are idiots doesn’t mean you are, besides you still create a gruesome view were there shouldn’t be one, of course if you go around showing pictures of chopped up cow its not mentally healthy for a kid, and yes i do think that when they are 7 or 10 they probably shouldn’t look at it but they should know where it comes from, and when they are old enough they can look for themselves, also just because you look at it in a gruesome way doesn’t mean it is, again cutting down a carrot or a cabbage is a better death than chopping up a cow? if so then you are just concerned about killing cute and cuddly things and should stop with the morality talk, cause for me its the same thing and deserves the same respect, again i’ll repeat, something has to die in order for us to live, its an irrefutable fact, the same way we need oxigen to function.
2. Again you say it out of context, you were talking about about lying to ourselves and how a plant is better than an animal as food and that we just close our eyes and pretend that we don’t know where the food comes from, and i replied in context, in this case that just cause you prefer one over the other doesn’t mean its the right choice or the preferred one, that was the context, not a have-to and want-to situation, maybe it wasn’t the best analogy, but the idea was that a cute animal is just a personal and subjective notion, that for some reason or need that notion can be changed, the same way you can break the law and eat me (literally speaking of course heheheh).
3. At least we agree on that…
@Jeri Smith
I actualy showed my daughter of 7 yesterday how hot dogs are made on you tube. I also showed her videos on “animal slaughter house torture”, on you tube. No doubt she has chosen to stop eating meat on her own after crying for an hour, but it is the facts and she deserves to make an educated choice on what she eats.
.
.
Wow, I read that and had to shake my head in disbelief. You just committed, at least in my eyes, the cardinal sin of taking age and experience based decisions which all of our children should have … away from your daughter … by doing something that was so utterly predictable. And then you even “dare” to excuse this behavior as something proper and productive.
The one thing that hardly nobody here seems to be concerned about, is the emotional and psychological impact that our actions can have on a child. Do you really mean to tell me that having your daughter “confront the truth about hot dogs” at the age of 7, which was followed by GENUINE TRAUMA for at least an hour of crying (something that *SHE* won’t forget for years to come) is actually a good thing? Do you REALLY believe this? And what about her rights? How about letting her grow up as a normal human being, one that has the right to learn and gain experience … in order to let her make her own decisions as she grows older – JUST LIKE YOU DID.
But to me, as a parent who’s forced to make decisions or take decisions away from my child at times, the first part of my comment is what’s really important here. I can’t speak for your daughter, but I can tell you this and it’s the gospel (for lack of better words). At close to 40 I was diagnosed with hyper sensitivy disorder. I repeat, at close to age 40. It’s a problem that I had *ALL* of my life … and didn’t know it. Millions of people have this problem, occurs more frequently for people with depressions than others, and if my parents had shown me some insanity like what you showed your daughter, it very well might have given me nightmares or even worse for years to come. Although a child is far more resilient than an adult, a child’s brain is at times far more vulnerable too, especially when there are underlying issues that nobody is aware of.
Today, at almost 50 years of age, I can watch sick demented horrible crap … because I’ve learned – AS AN ADULT – to be able to deal with such things. I believe that our children should have the same rights we did, to eat meats or to eat veggies or to eat whatever. As we did, they should be able to grow and learn and inform themselves and then make decisions for their own lives. Especially in areas of food, something that comes in a million different flavors out of thousands of worldwide cultures. We should *NOT* prevent our children from learning about these things at their own pace, on their own terms.
To most people, there are only 3 important factors about food and it’s been like that for thousands of years. Again, not for all, but certainly for most people. ONE – The Taste and purely the taste only …. TWO – What it looks/smells/feels like, in other words the presentation …. THREE – Health, and what the food does to or for us.
Having said this, I eat what I eat admittedly due to reason 1, the taste of what I put in my mouth, regardless if meat, veggie, fruit, pie, chocolate, cake, soup, and even what I drink. To me food is one of the most important things in my life because I take great pleasure in eating (and watch my calories like a madman). And this too, is something that I would never take away from my child, the decision making power, as he gets older, to learn about the amazing food items that the world has to offer … to learn about them … and to decide what he wants to put into his own body for whatever reason (remember, we’re talking strictly food here)
PS: Do you also show your kids videos of people thoroughly enjoying their BBQs, Dinner with friends, romantic candlelight dinners, dining in super fancy restaurants, the pleasure of family Thanksgiving or Christmas Turkey, Goose, Duck, Ham, whatever … or is the showing of those videos strictly one sided, so that the child can only get *ONE* feeling out of *YOUR* video lessons … a bad disgusted horrified feeling that may even go as far as to leave emotional scars for years to come (after he or she gets diagnosed with depressions, hypersensitivity, etc.) ???
@GargiDutta
It’s a good idea to switch to soy milk or rice milk. Not a problem really. Just like with meat – if you can’t stand this level of cruelty – don’t consume the product. Some people, however, just close their eyes.
@hugo
well, I didn’t try to convince you that plants are better than animals as a food. I actually suggest that if we should take them as same things then make choices accordingly. You yourself state that it’s a better to hold-off showing animals chopping to kids. Where does this need come from? Exactly what makes pigs-slaughtering a gruesome picture to show to your kids? They sure have some natural feeling of importance of life, plus it’s your own guidance that make them feel upset if they see death of an animal. The very fact that you set this cover up defines the difference between plants and animals.
If you cut a pomegranate you’d see blood-like juice, squashed bones (kernels) and misplaced “joints”. It doesn’t scream in agony though, but it’s not only the sound that makes the difference, right?
I am trying to show the flawed logic we all have now – real carnivores don’t lie to their kids. Tigers don’t have pets. Bears don’t have deer-friends. Wolves don’t need rabbits formed into an innocent-looking sausage to make a bite. We are not carnivores. We are humans.
@meinecommunity
When your child is already prone to being hurt with such visuals you should definitely avoid showing’em. I feel that I should also remove the controversy and need to keep it out of sight. I don’t have to show my child videos of holocaust because we do not practice abuse of Jews in our home in any shape or form. If he needs to see this – he has to grow up first.
So, in my post I was talking to parents, not suggesting them to show the movie to their kids, but rather watch it themselves and then think about removing the need to conceal anything.
“ONE – The Taste and purely the taste only ….”
I used to relish the taste of meet. Still can’t forget it. Gradually, however I started to enjoy other foods just as much, if not more. Our taste-buds adapt to anything. Mind you, taste, per se, is irrelevant and is only an expression of your eating-habits.
“TWO – What it looks/smells/feels like, in other words the presentation ….”
Yeah, but meat doesn’t really look any different from a dead, reaped cow. It’s the same thing. You can make it look prettier with some effort, add spice (veg-based) to trick your brain and only with time and adaptation your brain will start admiring the look of a steak.
“THREE – Health, and what the food does to or for us.”
Plenty of theories here. We read what we want to read. One thing for sure – while it used to be a dictum that we need meat to stay healthy we now see lots of studies showing that opposite is true. If you leave out the science and just look at vegetarians you’d see people who feel better, live longer and are more likely to be happy.
p.s. Lots of meat-eaters swear by how they enjoy life BECAUSE they can eat meat, for it’s so delicious and comforting. Been there, know that. Now I can attest that water-melon gives me all that, plus no guilt.
Hmmm, at the risk of being ridiculed … I don’t ever lie to our Son. Never, because I really can’t stand liers, especially since we live in an age where damn near everyone lies anymore – even for the most ridiculous reasons, just to be important or not to lose face. So yeah, Stephen always gets the truth from me.
EXAMPLE: Our Son has no clue (and won’t for awhile unless he finds this post) that I used to be heavily involved in a gang, right hand as a matter of fact, did just about every drug that you can think of (except the kind that are injected) and was an alcoholic for about 4 or 5 years of my life … before I too decided to grow up at the age of 35.
Anyway, one day we’re watching an action flick with lots of gang activity and something that I said prompted him to ask me if I was ever in a gang? Well, my answer was this:
“Actually, I’ve done quite a bit of stuff in my life that I’m not very proud of, but to be honst about it, right now is not the correct time to turn my mistakes into something that we need to debate, just for fear on my part that such a conversation may somehow, inadvertently, cause you to make rash or just plain stupid, possibly even life threatening decisions later on. Unlike you, I really didn’t have very productive guidance in my life. If you give it a little bit more time, after focussing a little longer on your future, education, and eventual goals in life, ask me more specifically and I promise you that I’ll answer everything to the best of my abilities, regardless if good or bad. I just don’t think that right now is the correct time for this since particularily teenagers can often be impressed negatively by mistakes that their parents make/have made (Michael Jackson). I just want to be a good & responsible father for right now, and hope that you can understand as well as respect where I’m coming from!”
Okay, it was awhile back so perhaps the wording here is only about 90% accurate, but that’s how I talk to our teenager. We love each other dearly, respect one another, and I’m pretty sure that I’m his “hero” even though his own male ego would prevent him from ever saying so at this particular age.
Heck, when he was 6 years old he asked me how babies are made ??? Holy crap, that was a tough one, but I figured out “child talk” to explain everything fairly well and he pretty much just shrugged it off – pretty much forgot about it – until it came up again in school, a few years later. The point is this … You simply don’t have to lie to your kids, but you also don’t need to slap them in the face with excessive horrific truths. They will learn about these things as we did, and we should guide (not brainwash) them the best we can.
You are definitely a mindful and considerate father. I applaud to how you’ve managed to change yourself and how you pass on your hard-earned knowledge to your son. That’s what everyone should do.
In this analogy, however, I have to add that there’s more to it than just explaining/slapping truth in face. Imagine your son actually trying light drugs every once in a while (or even imagine yourself giving them to him) from the age of 1, and then telling him the “truth” and letting him choose, say, 20 years later. Just a detail in the analogy, but it reverses the whole concept of truth.
OK, you’re 100% sure that drugs and gangs are bad, because it’s not only pleasure and fun, but also cruelty, brain damage and social degradation.
Meat, in my view, is the same. There’s more to it than just taste. There’s also torture, killing and exploiting of living beings.
@Andrew Boon
Humm my only reason to hold of on the cow picture thing is purely because you think that scaring the shit out of children is a good idea, while i think that teaching them is a much better choice, since their “natural feeling of importance of life” is something that is again teached and not natural to children, and no its not my “guidance that make them feel upset if they see death of an animal” not sure where you get that from, and again not showing them pics is not a cover up, again you want it for the shock value, you think that showing the picture (a negative punishment) is a proper form of educating a child, while i think that teaching them and avoiding showing them when they are not mentally ready to understand it (positive reinforcement) is the best way, its a matter of opinion, i just think mine is the most humane way.
To someone that says “I didn’t try to convince you that plants are better than animals as a food” you then say “If you cut a pomegranate you’d see blood-like juice, squashed bones (kernels) and misplaced “joints”. It doesn’t scream in agony though, but it’s not only the sound that makes the difference, right?”, righttttt and most animals dont scream in agony cause they are killed quite quickly ^^
My logic might be subject to interpretation, cause some of it is clearly a personal choice and view and that can always be subject to scrutiny, but its far from flawed, its actually pretty tight, unlike yours, “real carnivores don’t lie to their kids” humm we are Omnivores as well as comparing us with animals in this way is unfair (the only thing in common with them is that we also eat meat), again you can tell your child were a sausage comes from, you don’t need to hide or lie to him… EVER… without showing pictures of dead cows or showing videos of people getting slaughtered and dismembered is not the proper way to explain to a child what is war and how terrible it is…
I have said a few times here and at Unity blogs that I don’t suggest showing the video to kids. I point to us having to conceal it (we really should) and this need is a result of what I think is a series of wrong choices. Omnivores or carnivores.. the point stands – we have emotional problems when thinking about where meat comes from (when we do think about it) and that is a sign of our readiness to make the next step of our evolution.
Im having a barbeque steak right now at this moment and all I can say to this is man is this soooo yummmmy ….. and a nice glass of cold beer!